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28 Fructidor CCXI (September 14, 2003)

(Ramblings) Cleanup, Kernels, and Macs

This weekend, during my cleanup of old hardware,1 I decided to take another shot at getting hel working. If you ever want to see slow then I suggest you try installing linux on a 68k Macintosh. Even a 68040 powered one. (Example: One pass of badblocks doing the read-only test took longer than 3 passes of the write test on skoll.)

Either way, after a while I finally got a basic install done. Due to the severe lack of memory I decided to grab the 2.4.21 kernel source and compile a very stripped down, machine specific kernel. Only, as I found out after the machine had spent several hours compiling, you can't. It seems that up until at least 2.4.21 the kernel had what was described in the 2.4.22 changelog as an "adbhid m68k screwup." Essentially what happened was that the kernel made reference to an undefined symbol called ADBREQ_RAW. So, if you wanted to compile a kernel on a 68k based Macintosh for the past 2 and a half years you've either had to use a 2.2 kernel or do without ADB support. I mean, it's not like anything important hooks up to the Apple Desktop Bus, just the keyboard.

It appears that 2.4.22 fixes this (not that the changelog entry is very definite about what got fixed), but given my habit of running a kernel that's one version behind the current stable one, I was unaware of this. (Compiling 2.4.22 right now and hoping it works.) To make matters worse, this apparently worked in the 2.2 series, but at some point during the transition to 2.4 it got broken and never was fixed until now.

However, this problem made me think of something again; when it comes time to look back at past linux kernels I don't think 2.4.x will be looked on favourably from a development viewpoint.

Let's consider the points, shall we? For starters, the kernel was late. I don't mean just a little late, I mean scoring #4 on Wired's top 10 vaporware of 2000 late.

But it finally got here, and after a few issues things became fairly decent for a while (or at least it's damn hard to search for stories about issues from that far back.) There was at least one serious bug, but that affected every kernel from 2.2.0 onwards.

Then, we hit 2.4.11.  A kernel that corrupted symlinks when you unmounted a drive and which forced the release of 2.4.12 just 2 days later. Ok, so that's one bad release, we'll allow that. After all, 2.2.9 was released just two days after 2.2.8.

Then, we have the VM management system swapped out in favour of another one.2 Wait a minute, wasn't this the stable branch? That sounds more like something you'd do in the development branch instead of the production one.

So, one major issue and a rather questionable decision regarding the internals. Got all that? Because now we get into the teens.

  • 2.4.13: Parallel port driver doesn't work. (It might not have even compiled, can't find out for sure.)
  • 2.4.15 (aka greased-turkey): Corrupted the file system on unmount. Required the release of 2.4.16 4 days later.
  • 2.4.18: rc3 gets released instead of rc4, breaking compilation on a variety of architectures. Gets fixed in 2.4.19-pre1 within a few hours, but doesn't get fixed in a production release for another 6 months.

Ok, so things have calmed down since then. The only major issue being a data corrupting bug in 2.4.20. I'll also give it that I really prefer 2.4 to 2.2 (if only because of iptables), but any kernel where you're better off waiting several months on the final stable release and picking and choosing the past releases doesn't say much for the development process.

Here's hoping 2.6 is better.

1 I'll post pics of the massive pile of hardware that got thrown out once I get the film developed.
2 I can't find when exactly this happened. It was sometime between 2.4.8 and 2.4.14 if I remember correctly.

Posted by g026r at 18:44
Comments

Meanwhile, I'm sitting here hoping that my upgrade to 2.4.22 fixes my random occasional crashes.  I have no reason to believe it will, except that I really really hope it does.

I did find your summary informative, though.  It might change my mind about immediately upgrading my kernel as soon as a new one hits portage.

Posted by peter at 28 Fructidor CCXI 19:02 (2003/09/14)

I used to upgrade as soon as the new version hit the kernel.org mirrors but I stopped around 2.4.15; I had randomly (and luckily) put that one off for a few days. A friend of mine, on the other hand, installed it right away and got hit with the bug. At that point I decided that waiting a bit might be a good idea.

As for random kernel happenings: I've got friends who can't compile anything greater than 2.4.19. Well, actually they can compile 2.4.20, but only on one of their machines. To make it even stranger, that one machine that can compile is running the same distro as the ones that can't.

Siteicon Posted by g026r at 28 Fructidor CCXI 19:17 (2003/09/14)

Suggestion:  save the Nancy-poster as a separate page.  (i.e. heimdall.shacknet.nu/whereisnancy.html).  You can put it as an intro page at times of need, but it would also be in a stable position for permanent links.

Posted by peter at 28 Fructidor CCXI 22:39 (2003/09/14)

Done and done.
As is I've just been changing the order of the index pages it searches for (i.e. putting index.html before index.shtml)

As for kernels: after about 6 hours, I've discovered that whatever the ADB HID screwup was that got fixed, it wasn't the ADBREQ_RAW reference.
Time to grab 2.2.25 since it supposedly works in that version.

Siteicon Posted by g026r at 28 Fructidor CCXI 23:05 (2003/09/14)

Re: Your occasional random crashes

Are their any particular symptoms to the crashes? Or is it just the machine freezing solid?

And one more question: Is there any particular reason your kernel appears to be SMP enabled? Inquiring minds want to know this kind of stuff.

Siteicon Posted by g026r at 30 Fructidor CCXI 16:12 (2003/09/16)

The machine freezes solid.  It has every appearance of an overheating crash, except the machine isn't overheating.

It used to do it every couple hours when I first installed gentoo.  Then I put on SuSe to see if it was a software problem.  It never crashed with SuSe, and stayed up about a week and a half, until my hate for SuSe was too overwhelming.  Then I re-installed gentoo, and this time I took the kernel options from the Gentoo boot CD, and only removed the options that I definitely didn't need.  Now it crashes once a week, or so.  But it hasn't crashed on 2.4.22, so I'm still maintaining hope that it was fixed.

I suspect that the problem before might have been that I compiled my kernel optimized for athlon-xp.  Now it's only optimized for i386.

And the SMP thing was probably one of those options that I never bothered removing from the gentoo boot CD configuration.

Posted by peter at 30 Fructidor CCXI 16:59 (2003/09/16)

Every appearance of overheating, but without the overheating? Ooooh, one of the fun ones then.

There's nothing in particular that sets it off? (i.e. It's more likely to do it when copying a file from one drive to another.)

I'm just asking as I remember Slack 8.0 had a problem like that when it was released (and which only affected certain machines). Granted Slackware often makes Debian look speedy in terms of package intergration, so I wouldn't expect that issue to make it into Gentoo now.

Siteicon Posted by g026r at 30 Fructidor CCXI 17:23 (2003/09/16)

No, it doesn't happen more often when I do anything.  Most often, it happens when I'm not using the computer at all (i.e. I wake up in the morning and it froze overnight, or I come back from work to find it frozen).  But it has also happened when I was using the computer, too.

It's really quite the mystery.

Posted by peter at La Fête de la Vertu CCXI 01:42 (2003/09/17)
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