25 Thermidor CCXIII (August 12, 2005)
Ye Olde Englifh Entry
Today's random bit of trivia is: "what's up with the word ye". By which I mean the definite article usage (as in the entry title), not the archaic version of the second-person plural pronoun.
So, what's up with it? Well, first off, in Old English/Anglo-Saxon the correct pronounciation is actually the exact same as the — any other pronounciation of is as historically accurate as using the letter f instead of s*, or spelling magic as magicke.
But where did it come from? Well, originally the letter took a runic form, called thorn, which is written þ. The pronounciation of this letter? You guessed it: th.
Ok, but how did we get from þe to ye? Well, an alternate way of representing þ was to write y instead. Therefore ye was the same word as þe and — following the dropping of þ from the English language post-Norman invasion — the.
There you go, that's my pedantic post for the month. Although I should note that any potential errors are unintentional, since I'm not a linguist by training or trade.
* The letter that people confuse for f is actually just an elongated form of the letter s. My use of it in the title is in no way an endorsement of actually using f instead of s.
Good to know.
Knowing stuff like that only serves to annoy, however. Unless I want to get off on a pedantic rant (as you did) then I'm better off pronouncing "ye" in the conventional modern way, which is what people expect. If you try pronouncing "ye" as "the", you're likely to get someone to correct you to the incorrect pronounciation.
In summary: you just have to go with the flow.
Posted by peterjm at 26 Thermidor CCXIII 00:53 (2005/08/13)
Actually, I'd think it's safe to say that it doesn't annoy me. Hell, even I end up pronouncing it ye. It's just that pedantic rants are my speciality.
That said, it is the type of thing that gets me thinking. More specifically, it's gotten me thinking about the origins of the word you. Once upon a time, English had a different pronoun for the second person singular (you), and the second person plural (ye). Alternatively, you could also use thou and thee. Therefore, were they once the same root word, and did the pronounciation of one spelling simply change over time? Unfortunately, until I have 2000 dollars to spare, I doubt I'll ever know for sure.
(If you think the price on that version is high, check out the leather bound edition.)
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As it's my understanding, the "thee/thou" versus "you/ye" distinction was a distinction relating to the formality of speech or to whom you were addressing - interestingly enough, "you" being used in the formal case. You can see this in some of Shakespeare's works, where a given character (e.g. a noble) will address another using "thou" as an insult, while the other may respond using "you", intending to show respect (or possibly showing that person's desire for the other - "putting them on a pedestal", in a sense). You can still see this distinction in some languages today - Spanish and French off the top of my head; there are many others. Now, how one form fell out of common usage while the other remained, and what are the roots of these words, I'm not sure.
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